[openstack-dev] [magnum][app-catalog][all] Build unified abstraction for all COEs

Joshua Harlow harlowja at fastmail.com
Wed Apr 20 21:49:30 UTC 2016

Thierry Carrez wrote:
> Adrian Otto wrote:
>> This pursuit is a trap. Magnum should focus on making native container
>> APIs available. We should not wrap APIs with leaky abstractions. The
>> lowest common denominator of all COEs is an remarkably low value API
>> that adds considerable complexity to Magnum that will not
>> strategically advance OpenStack. If we instead focus our effort on
>> making the COEs work better on OpenStack, that would be a winning
>> strategy. Support and compliment our various COE ecosystems.

So I'm all for avoiding 'wrap APIs with leaky abstractions' and 'making
COEs work better on OpenStack' but I do dislike the part about COEs 
(plural) because it is once again the old non-opinionated problem that 
we (as a community) suffer from.

Just my 2 cents, but I'd almost rather we pick one COE and integrate 
that deeply/tightly with openstack, and yes if this causes some part of 
the openstack community to be annoyed, meh, to bad. Sadly I have a 
feeling we are hurting ourselves by continuing to try to be everything 
and not picking anything (it's a general thing we, as a group, seem to 
be good at, lol). I mean I get the reason to just support all the 
things, but it feels like we as a community could just pick something, 
work together on figuring out how to pick one, using all these bright 
leaders we have to help make that possible (and yes this might piss some 
people off, to bad). Then work toward making that something great and 
move on...

> I'm with Adrian on that one. I've attended a lot of container-oriented
> conferences over the past year and my main takeaway is that this new
> crowd of potential users is not interested (at all) in an
> OpenStack-specific lowest common denominator API for COEs. They want to
> take advantage of the cool features in Kubernetes API or the versatility
> of Mesos. They want to avoid caring about the infrastructure provider
> bit (and not deploy Mesos or Kubernetes themselves).
> Let's focus on the infrastructure provider bit -- that is what we do and
> what the ecosystem wants us to provide.

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