[openstack-dev] [Magnum] Discuss mesos-bay-type Blueprint

Kai Qiang Wu wkqwu at cn.ibm.com
Wed Jun 3 01:19:18 UTC 2015

Hi All,

For mesos bay, I think what we should implement depends on user-cases.

If users use magnum to create mesos-bay, what would they do with mesos in
following steps ?

1. If they go to mesos (framework or anything) directly, we'd better not
involve any new mesos objects, but use container if possible.
2. If they'd like to  operate with mesos through magnum, and it is easy to
do that, we could provide some objects operation.

Ideally, it is good to reuse containers api if possible. If not, we'd
better find ways to mesos mapping(api passthrough, instead add redundant
objects in magnum side)


Best Wishes,
Kai Qiang Wu (吴开强  Kennan)
IBM China System and Technology Lab, Beijing

E-mail: wkqwu at cn.ibm.com
Tel: 86-10-82451647
Address: Building 28(Ring Building), ZhongGuanCun Software Park,
         No.8 Dong Bei Wang West Road, Haidian District Beijing P.R.China
Follow your heart. You are miracle!

From:	Hongbin Lu <hongbin.lu at huawei.com>
To:	"OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"
            <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>
Date:	06/02/2015 06:15 AM
Subject:	Re: [openstack-dev] [Magnum] Discuss mesos-bay-type Blueprint

Hi Jay,

For your question “what is the mesos object that we want to manage”, the
short answer is it depends. There are two options I can think of:
      1.       Don’t manage any object from Marathon directly. Instead, we
      can focus on the existing Magnum objects (i.e. container), and
      implements them by using Marathon APIs if it is possible. Use the
      abstraction ‘container’ as an example. For a swarm bay, container
      will be implemented by calling docker APIs. For a mesos bay,
      container could be implemented by using Marathon APIs (it looks the
      Marathon’s object ‘app’ can be leveraged to operate a docker
      container). The effect is that Magnum will have a set of common
      abstractions that is implemented differently by different bay type.
      2.       Do manage a few Marathon objects (i.e. app). The effect is
      that Magnum will have additional API object(s) that is from Marathon
      (like what we have for existing k8s objects: pod/service/rc).


From: Jay Lau [mailto:jay.lau.513 at gmail.com]
Sent: May-29-15 1:35 AM
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Magnum] Discuss mesos-bay-type Blueprint

I want to mention that there is another mesos framework named as chronos:
https://github.com/mesos/chronos , it is used for job orchestration.

For others, please refer to my comments in line.

2015-05-29 7:45 GMT+08:00 Adrian Otto <adrian.otto at rackspace.com>:
I’m moving this whiteboard to the ML so we can have some discussion to
refine it, and then go back and update the whiteboard.

Source: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/magnum/+spec/mesos-bay-type

My comments in-line below.

Begin forwarded message:

From: hongbin <hongbin.lu at huawei.com>
Subject: COMMERCIAL:[Blueprint mesos-bay-type] Add support for mesos bay
Date: May 28, 2015 at 2:11:29 PM PDT
To: <adrian.otto at rackspace.com>
Reply-To: hongbin <hongbin.lu at huawei.com>

Blueprint changed by hongbin:

Whiteboard set to:

I did a preliminary research on possible implementations. I think this BP
can be implemented in two steps.
1. Develop a heat template for provisioning mesos cluster.
2. Implement a magnum conductor for managing the mesos cluster.

Agreed, thanks for filing this blueprint!
For 2, the conductor is mainly used to manage objects for CoE, k8s has pod,
service, rc, what is the mesos object that we want to manage? IMHO, mesos
is a resource manager and it needs to be worked with some frameworks to
provide services.

 First, I want to emphasis that mesos is not a service (It looks like a
 library). Therefore, mesos doesn't have web API, and most users don't
 use mesos directly. Instead, they use a mesos framework that is on top
 of mesos. Therefore, a mesos bay needs to have a mesos framework pre-
 configured so that magnum can talk to the framework to manage the bay.
 There are several framework choices. Below is a list of frameworks that
 look like a fit (in my opinion). A exhaustive list of framework can be
 found here [1].

 1. Marathon [2]
 This is a framework controlled by a company (mesosphere [3]). It is open
 source through. It supports running app on clusters of docker containers.
 It is probably the most widely-used mesos framework for long-running

 Marathon offers a REST API, whereas Aroura does not (unless one has
 materialized in the last month). This was the one we discussed in our
 Vancouver design summit, and we agreed that those wanting to use Apache
 Mesos are probably expecting this framework.

 2. Aurora [4]
 This is a framework governed by Apache Software Foundation. It looks very
 similar to Marathon, but maybe more advanced in nature. It has been used
 by Twitter at scale. Here [5] is a detailed comparison between Marathon
 and Aurora.

 We should have an alternate bay template for Aroura in our contrib
 directory. If users like Aroura better than Marathon, we can discuss
 making it the default template, and put the Marathon template in the
 contrib directory.

 3. Kubernetes/Docker swarm
 It looks the swarm-mesos is not ready yet. I cannot find any thing about
 that (besides several videos on Youtube). The kubernetes-mesos is there
 [6]. In theory, magnum should be able to deploy a mesos bay and talk to
 the bay through kubernetes API. An advantage is that we can reuse the
 kubernetes conductor. A disadvantage is that it is not a 'mesos' way to
 manage containers. Users from mesos community are probably more
 comfortable to manage containers through Marathon/Aurora.

 If you want Kubernetes, you should use the Kubernetes bay type. If you
 want Kubernetes controlling Mesos, make a custom Heat template for that,
 and we can put it into contrib.
Agree, even using Mesos as resource manager, end user can still use magnum
API to create pod, service, and rc.

 If you want Swarm controlling Mesos, then you want BOTH a Swarm bay *and*
 a Mesos bay, with the Swarm bay configured to use the Mesos bay using the
 (currently developing) integration hook for Mesos in Swarm.

 Any opposing viewpoints to consider?




 [1] http://mesos.apache.org/documentation/latest/mesos-frameworks/
 [2] https://github.com/mesosphere/marathon
 [3] https://mesosphere.com/
 [4] http://aurora.apache.org/

 [6] https://github.com/mesosphere/kubernetes-mesos

 Add support for mesos bay type

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