[openstack-dev] 答复: [neutron] Neutron scaling datapoints?

Daniel Comnea comnea.dani at gmail.com
Tue Apr 14 14:40:48 UTC 2015


Joshua,

those are old and have been fixed/ documented on Consul side.
As for ZK, i have nothing against it, just wish you good luck running it in
a multi cross-DC setup :)

Dani

On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 11:37 PM, Joshua Harlow <harlowja at outlook.com>
wrote:

> Did the following get addressed?
>
> https://aphyr.com/posts/316-call-me-maybe-etcd-and-consul
>
> Seems like quite a few things got raised in that post about etcd/consul.
>
> Maybe they are fixed, idk...
>
> https://aphyr.com/posts/291-call-me-maybe-zookeeper though worked as
> expected (and without issue)...
>
> I quote:
>
> '''
> Recommendations
>
> Use Zookeeper. It’s mature, well-designed, and battle-tested. Because the
> consequences of its connection model and linearizability properties are
> subtle, you should, wherever possible, take advantage of tested recipes and
> client libraries like Curator, which do their best to correctly handle the
> complex state transitions associated with session and connection loss.
> '''
>
> Daniel Comnea wrote:
>
>> My $2 cents:
>>
>> I like the 3rd party backend however instead of ZK wouldn't Consul [1]
>> fit better due to lighter/ out of box multi DC awareness?
>>
>> Dani
>>
>> [1] Consul - https://www.consul.io/
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 9:51 AM, Wangbibo <wangbibo at huawei.com
>> <mailto:wangbibo at huawei.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hi Kevin,____
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     Totally agree with you that heartbeat from each agent is something
>>     that we cannot eliminate currently. Agent status depends on it, and
>>     further scheduler and HA depends on agent status.____
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     I proposed a Liberty spec for introducing open framework/pluggable
>>     agent status drivers.[1][2]  It allows us to use some other 3^rd
>>     party backend to monitor agent status, such as zookeeper, memcached.
>>     Meanwhile, it guarantees backward compatibility so that users could
>>     still use db-based status monitoring mechanism as their default
>>     choice.____
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     Base on that, we may do further optimization on issues Attila and
>>     you mentioned. Thanks. ____
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     [1] BP  -
>>     https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/agent-group-
>> and-status-drivers____
>>
>>     [2] Liberty Spec proposed - https://review.openstack.org/#
>> /c/168921/____
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     Best,____
>>
>>     Robin____
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     *发件人:*Kevin Benton [mailto:blak111 at gmail.com
>>     <mailto:blak111 at gmail.com>]
>>     *发送时间:*2015年4月11日12:35
>>     *收件人:*OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>>     *主题:*Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron] Neutron scaling datapoints?____
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     Which periodic updates did you have in mind to eliminate? One of the
>>     few remaining ones I can think of is sync_routers but it would be
>>     great if you can enumerate the ones you observed because eliminating
>>     overhead in agents is something I've been working on as well.____
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     One of the most common is the heartbeat from each agent. However, I
>>     don't think we can't eliminate them because they are used to
>>     determine if the agents are still alive for scheduling purposes. Did
>>     you have something else in mind to determine if an agent is alive?____
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 2:18 AM, Attila Fazekas <afazekas at redhat.com
>>     <mailto:afazekas at redhat.com>> wrote:____
>>
>>     I'm 99.9% sure, for scaling above 100k managed node,
>>     we do not really need to split the openstack to multiple smaller
>>     openstack,
>>     or use significant number of extra controller machine.
>>
>>     The problem is openstack using the right tools SQL/AMQP/(zk),
>>     but in a wrong way.
>>
>>     For example.:
>>     Periodic updates can be avoided almost in all cases
>>
>>     The new data can be pushed to the agent just when it needed.
>>     The agent can know when the AMQP connection become unreliable (queue
>>     or connection loose),
>>     and needs to do full sync.
>>     https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1438159
>>
>>     Also the agents when gets some notification, they start asking for
>>     details via the
>>     AMQP -> SQL. Why they do not know it already or get it with the
>>     notification ?
>>
>>
>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>     >  From: "Neil Jerram" <Neil.Jerram at metaswitch.com
>>     <mailto:Neil.Jerram at metaswitch.com>>____
>>
>>     >  To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"
>>     <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>>     <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>
>>
>>     >  Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2015 5:01:45 PM
>>     >  Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron] Neutron scaling datapoints?
>>     >
>>     >  Hi Joe,
>>     >
>>     >  Many thanks for your reply!
>>     >
>>     >  On 09/04/15 03:34, joehuang wrote:
>>     >  > Hi, Neil,
>>     >  >
>>     >  >  From theoretic, Neutron is like a "broadcast" domain, for
>> example,
>>     >  >  enforcement of DVR and security group has to touch each
>>     regarding host
>>     >  >  where there is VM of this project resides. Even using SDN
>>     controller, the
>>     >  > "touch" to regarding host is inevitable. If there are plenty of
>>     physical
>>     >  >  hosts, for example, 10k, inside one Neutron, it's very hard to
>>     overcome
>>     >  >  the "broadcast storm" issue under concurrent operation, that's
>> the
>>     >  >  bottleneck for scalability of Neutron.
>>     >
>>     >  I think I understand that in general terms - but can you be more
>>     >  specific about the broadcast storm?  Is there one particular
>> message
>>     >  exchange that involves broadcasting?  Is it only from the server to
>>     >  agents, or are there 'broadcasts' in other directions as well?
>>     >
>>     >  (I presume you are talking about control plane messages here, i.e.
>>     >  between Neutron components.  Is that right?  Obviously there can
>>     also be
>>     >  broadcast storm problems in the data plane - but I don't think
>> that's
>>     >  what you are talking about here.)
>>     >
>>     >  > We need layered architecture in Neutron to solve the "broadcast
>>     domain"
>>     >  > bottleneck of scalability. The test report from OpenStack
>>     cascading shows
>>     >  > that through layered architecture "Neutron cascading", Neutron
>> can
>>     >  > supports up to million level ports and 100k level physical
>>     hosts. You can
>>     >  > find the report here:
>>     >  >
>>     http://www.slideshare.net/JoeHuang7/test-report-for-
>> open-stack-cascading-solution-to-support-1-million-v-ms-in-
>> 100-data-centers
>>     >
>>     >  Many thanks, I will take a look at this.
>>     >
>>     >  > "Neutron cascading" also brings extra benefit: One cascading
>>     Neutron can
>>     >  > have many cascaded Neutrons, and different cascaded Neutron can
>>     leverage
>>     >  > different SDN controller, maybe one is ODL, the other one is
>>     OpenContrail.
>>     >  >
>>     >  > ----------------Cascading Neutron-------------------
>>     >  >              /         \
>>     >  > --cascaded Neutron--   --cascaded Neutron-----
>>     >  >         |                  |
>>     >  > ---------ODL------       ----OpenContrail--------
>>     >  >
>>     >  >
>>     >  > And furthermore, if using Neutron cascading in multiple data
>>     centers, the
>>     >  > DCI controller (Data center inter-connection controller) can
>>     also be used
>>     >  > under cascading Neutron, to provide NaaS ( network as a service
>>     ) across
>>     >  > data centers.
>>     >  >
>>     >  > ---------------------------Cascading
>>     Neutron--------------------------
>>     >  >              /            |          \
>>     >  > --cascaded Neutron--  -DCI controller-  --cascaded Neutron-----
>>     >  >         |                 |            |
>>     >  > ---------ODL------           |         ----OpenContrail--------
>>     >  >                           |
>>     >  > --(Data center 1)--   --(DCI networking)--  --(Data center 2)--
>>     >  >
>>     >  > Is it possible for us to discuss this in OpenStack Vancouver
>> summit?
>>     >
>>     >  Most certainly, yes.  I will be there from mid Monday afternoon
>>     through
>>     >  to end Friday.  But it will be my first summit, so I have no idea
>>     yet as
>>     >  to how I might run into you - please can you suggest!
>>     >
>>     >  > Best Regards
>>     >  > Chaoyi Huang ( Joe Huang )
>>     >
>>     >  Regards,
>>     >        Neil
>>     >
>>     >
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>>
>>
>>     ____
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     -- ____
>>
>>     Kevin Benton____
>>
>>
>>     ____________________________________________________________
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