Open Stack

On 09/23/2014 05:38 PM, Fox, Kevin M wrote:
> I'm interested in how this relates/conflicts with the TripleO goal of 
> using OpenStack to deploy OpenStack.
>
> It looks like (maybe just superficially) that Kubernetes is simply a 
> combination of (nova + docker driver) = container schedualer and 
> (heat) = orchestration. They both schedule containers, will need 
> advanced scheduling like "ensure these two containers are on different 
> servers (nova ServerGroups), autoscale resources, hook up things 
> together, have a json document that describes the desired state, 
> etc... If that's the case, it seems odd to use an OpenStack competing 
> product to deploy a competitor of Kubernetes. Two software stacks to 
> learn how to debug rather then just one.
>
Kevin,

Thanks for the feedback.

There are two orthogonal points you address re competitiveness.  One is 
the deployment program (which Kolla intends to be a part of). The 
deployment program includes an implementation (tripleo). TripleO is 
focused around using OpenStack to deploy OpenStack. Kolla is focused 
around using Kubernetes to deploy OpenStack.  But they both fit into the 
same program, and at some point they may even be remerged into both 
using OpenStack to deploy OpenStack.  Time will tell.

IMO Kubernetes is not competitive with OpenStack.  The way in which the 
Kolla project uses them is in fact complimentary.  In a perfect world 
OpenStack's container service (Magnum) + Heat could be used instead of 
Kubernetes.  The problem with that approach is the container service for 
OpenStack is not functional and not integrated into the release.

It is indeed true that another software stack must be learned.  We hope 
to abstract most/all of the differences so the actual maintenance 
difference (ie what must be learned) presents a small learning footprint.

> Maybe I'm just totally misunderstanding what Kubernetes is trying to 
> accomplish though. I'm not trying to stur up trouble here. I just 
> really want to understand how these two technologies fit together.
>

I don't see you stirring up trouble :)  Essentially this project 
proposes an alternative method for deploying OpenStack (ie not using 
OpenStack, but using Kubernetes).

I did run the idea by Robert Collins (current TripleO PTL) first before 
we got cracking on the code base.  He indicated the approach was worth 
experimenting with.

Regards
-steve


> Thanks,
> Kevin
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Steven Dake [sdake at redhat.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 23, 2014 3:40 PM
> *To:* OpenStack Development Mailing List
> *Subject:* [openstack-dev] [all][tripleo] New Project -> Kolla: Deploy 
> and Manage OpenStack using Kubernetes and Docker
>
> *Hi folks,***
> *
>
>
> I'm pleased to announce the development of a new project Kolla which 
> is Greek for glue :). Kolla has a goal of providing an implementation 
> that deploys OpenStack using Kubernetes and Docker. This project will 
> begin as a StackForge project separate from the TripleO/Deployment 
> program code base. Our long term goal is to merge into the 
> TripleO/Deployment program rather then create a new program.
>
>
> Docker is a container technology for delivering hermetically sealed 
> applications and has about 620 technical contributors [1]. We intend 
> to produce docker images for a variety of platforms beginning with 
> Fedora 20. We are completely open to any distro support, so if folks 
> want to add new Linux distribution to Kolla please feel free to submit 
> patches :)
>
>
> Kubernetes at the most basic level is a Docker scheduler produced by 
> and used within Google [2]. Kubernetes has in excess of 100 technical 
> contributors. Kubernetes is more then just a scheduler, it provides 
> additional functionality such as load balancing and scaling and has a 
> significant roadmap.
>
>
> The #tripleo channel on Freenode will be used for Kolla developer and 
> user communication. Even though we plan to become part of the 
> Deployment program long term, as we experiment we believe it is best 
> to hold a separate weekly one hour IRC meeting on Mondays at 2000 UTC 
> in #openstack-meeting [3].
>
>
> This project has been discussed with the current TripleO PTL (Robert 
> Collins) and he seemed very supportive and agreed with the 
> organization of the project outlined above. James Slagle, a TripleO 
> core developer, has kindly offered to liase between Kolla and the 
> broader TripleO community.
>
>
> I personally feel it is necessary to start from a nearly empty 
> repository when kicking off a new project. As a result, there is 
> limited code in the repository [4] at this time. I suspect folks will 
> start cranking out a kick-ass implementation once the Kolla/Stackforge 
> integration support is reviewed by the infra team [5].
>
>
> The initial core team is composed of Steven Dake, Ryan Hallisey, James 
> Lebocki, Jeff Peeler, James Slagle, Lars Kellogg-Sedman, and David 
> Vossel. The core team will be reviewed every 6 weeks to add fresh 
> developers.
>
>
> Please join the core team in designing and inventing this rockin' new 
> technology!
>
>
> Regards
> -steve
>
>
> *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
>
> **
>
> *
>
>
> [1] https://github.com/docker/docker [2] 
> https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/kubernetes
>
> [3] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Kolla [4] 
> https://github.com/jlabocki/superhappyfunshow [5] 
> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122972/
>
> *
> *
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OpenStack-dev mailing list
> OpenStack-dev at lists.openstack.org
> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev

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