[openstack-dev] [Neutron] Relationship between Neutron LBaaS and Libra

Andrew Hutchings andrew at linuxjedi.co.uk
Sat Jan 18 09:06:52 UTC 2014

On 17 Jan 2014, at 19:53, Jay Pipes <jaypipes at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 17:03 +0000, Andrew Hutchings wrote:
>> On 17 Jan 2014, at 16:10, Jay Pipes <jaypipes at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 14:34 +0100, Thomas Herve wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I've been looking at Neutron default LBaaS provider using haproxy, and while it's working nicely, it seems to have several shortcomings in terms of scalability and high availability. The Libra project seems to offer a more robust alternative, at least for scaling. The haproxy implementation in Neutron seems to continue to evolve (like with https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/lbaas-ha-haproxy), but I'm wondering why we can't leverage Libra. The APIs are a bit different, but the goals look very similar, and there is a waste of effort with 2 different implementations. Maybe we could see a Libra driver for Neutron LBaaS for example?
>>> Yep, it's a completely duplicative and wasteful effort.
>>> It would be great for Libra developers to contribute to Neutron LBaaS.
>> Hi Jay and Thomas,
>> I am the outgoing technical lead of Libra for HP.  But will reply whilst the new technical lead (Marc Pilon) gets subscribed to this.
> :( I had no idea, Andrew!

Not a big deal, I have some cool stuff open source stuff in HP I’m moving on to which I’m excited about and can help Openstack in other ways.  You should hear about that in a few months time.

>> I would go as far as duplicative or wasteful. Libra existed before Neutron LBaaS and is originally based on the Atlas API specifications.  Neutron LBaaS has started duplicating some of our features recently which we find quite flattering.
> I presume you meant you would *not* go as far as duplicative or
> wasteful :)

Yes, sorry, got back from Seattle a couple of days ago and am extremely jet lagged :)

> So, please don't take this the wrong way... but does anyone other than
> HP run Libra? Likewise, does anyone other than Rackspace run Atlas?

No one else runs it in production that I know about, but there are several trying it out and appearing to want to contribute.

> I find it a little difficult to comprehend why, if Libra preceded work
> on Neutron LBaaS, that it wasn't used as the basis of Neutron's LBaaS
> work. I can understand this for Atlas, since it's Java, but Libra is
> Python code... so it's even more confusing to me.
> Granted, I don't know the history of Neutron LBaaS, but it just seems to
> be that this particular area (LBaaS) has such blatantly overlapping
> codebases with separate contributor teams. Just baffling really.
> Any background or history you can give me (however opinionated!) would
> be very much appreciated :)

I don’t know if we pre-dated the planning phase, judging by a later email on this thread our planning phases were at the same time.  I wasn’t a big part of the planning phase so it is difficult to comment there.  But we had something we could use before we were in a place where we could even try out Neutron.  Also to start with our API was Java based (a Python replacement came later).

>> After the 5.x release of Libra has been stabilised we will be working towards integration with Neutron.  It is a very important thing on our roadmap and we are already working with 2 other large companies in Openstack to figure that piece out.
> Which large OpenStack companies? Are these companies currently deploying
> Libra?

I’m not sure what is public and what isn’t so I won’t name names.  They are currently talking to us about the best ways of working with us.  Both companies want to use Libra in different and interesting ways.  They are not currently deploying it but are both playing with it.  It is early days, they both approached us just before the Christmas break.

We know that working with the wider community with Libra has not been our strong point.  It is something I want the team to rectify and they are showing signs of making that happen.  People that are interested in Libra are welcome to hang out in the #stackforge-libra IRC channel to talk to us.
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