Open Stack

I'm fairly certain the buzzing sound I can hear is a bee in my bonnet... so
I suspect that I'm starting to sound like someone chasing a bee that only
they can hear. I'm not sure if it's helpful to keep this discussion on this
list - would there be a better forum somewhere else?


On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 7:34 PM, Thierry Carrez <thierry at openstack.org>
wrote:

> James Polley wrote:
> >
> >     > However, Thierry pointed
> >     > to https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation/Structure
> >     which
> >     > still refers to Project Technical Leads and says explicitly that
> they
> >     > lead individual projects, not programs. I actually have edit
> access to
> >     > that page, so I could at least update that with a simple
> >     > "s/Project/Program/", if I was sure that was the right thing to do.
> >
> >     Don't underestimate how stale wiki pages can become! Yes, fix it.
> >
> > I don't know if I've fixed it, but I've certainly replaced all users of
> > the word Project with Program.
> >
> > Whether or not it now matches reality, I'm not sure.
> >
> > I alsp removed (what I assume is) a stale reference to the PPB and added
> > a new heading for the TC.
>
> It looks correct to me, thanks!
>
> >     > http://www.openstack.org/ has a link in the bottom nav that says
> >     > "Projects"; it points to http://www.openstack.org/projects/ which
> >     > redirects to http://www.openstack.org/software/ which has a list
> of
> >     > things like "Compute" and "Storage" - which as far as I know are
> >     > Programs, not Projects. I don't know how to update that link in
> >     the nav
> >     > panel.
> >
> >     That's because the same word ("compute") is used for two different
> >     things: a program name ("Compute") and an "official OpenStack name"
> for
> >     a project ("OpenStack Compute a.k.a. Nova"). Basically official
> >     OpenStack names reduce confusion for newcomers ("What is Nova ?"),
> but
> >     they confuse old-timers at some point ("so the Compute program
> produces
> >     Nova a.k.a. OpenStack Compute ?").
> >
> >
> > That's confusing to me. I had thought that part of the reason for the
> > separation was to enable a level of indirection - if the Compute program
> > team decide that a new project called (for example) SuperNova should be
> > the main project, that just means that Openstack Compute is now a
> > pointer to a different project, supported by the same program team.
> >
> > It sounds like that isn't the intent though?
>
> That's more of a side-effect than the intent, IMHO. The indirection we
> created is between teams and code repositories.


> >     > I wasn't around when the original Programs/Projects discussion was
> >     > happening - which, I suspect, has a lot to do with why I'm confused
> >     > today - it seems as though people who were around at the time
> >     understand
> >     > the difference, but people who have joined since then are relying
> on
> >     > multiple conflicting verbal definitions. I believe, though,
> >     > that
> >
> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-June/010821.html
> >     > was one of the earliest starting points of the discussion. That
> page
> >     > points at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Projects, which today
> >     contains
> >     > a list of Programs. That page does have a definition of what a
> Program
> >     > is, but doesn't explain what a Project is or how they relate to
> >     > Programs. This page seems to be locked down, so I can't edit it.
> >
> >     https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Projects was renamed to
> >     https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Programs with the wiki helpfully
> leaving
> >     a redirect behind. So the content you are seeing here is the
> "Programs"
> >     wiki page, which is why it doesn't define "projects".
> >
> >     We don't really use the word "project" that much anymore, we prefer
> to
> >     talk about code repositories. Programs are teams working on a set of
> >     code repositories. Some of those code repositories may appear in the
> >     integrated release.
> >
> > This explanation of the difference between projects and programs sounds
> > like it would be useful to add to /Programs - but I can't edit that page.
>
> This page reflects the official list of programs, which is why it's
> protected. it's supposed to be replaced by an automatic publication from
>
> http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/reference/programs.yaml
> which is the ultimate source of truth on that topic.
>

I was going to ask about the reference to "The process new projects can
follow to become an Integrated project" - is that intended to refer to a
project or a program?

But then I read https://review.openstack.org/#/c/116727/ and and
http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/reference/incubation-integration-requirements.rst,
seem to make it clear that it's entirely possible that the Kitty program
might have a mix of Integrated and non-Integrated projects.

Is it safe to assume that the Governance repo is canonical and up-to-date,
and rework the wiki pages based on the information in the Governance repo?


> >     [1] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ProjectTypes
> >
> > I *can* edit that page; I'd like to bring it up-to-date. It seems like a
> > good basis for explaining the difference between Programs and Projects
> > and the historical reasons for the split. I'll aim to take a stab at
> > this next week.
>
> Please feel free to do so, however that page is really an artifact of
> the old way we were structured, and is therefore useful as an historic
> leftover :) It's not linked from anywhere those days. Maybe you should
> create a new page, like
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Projects_vs_Programs ? What you want to
> talk about is not really about "Project Types" anyway.


> --
> Thierry Carrez (ttx)
>
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