[openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list (summary so far)

Matt Riedemann mriedem at linux.vnet.ibm.com
Sat Nov 16 14:46:14 UTC 2013

On Saturday, November 16, 2013 2:09:35 AM, Monty Taylor wrote:
> On 11/15/2013 12:08 PM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
>> Adrian Otto wrote:
>>> If OpenStack starts a culture of exclusion instead of inclusion, that would start a dangerous trend that sets the wrong tone. It would quickly reach the point where new projects like mine would simply not come here. We would go somewhere else that does have a culture of inclusion. We would not employ the values of open design and open collaboration, and we would be back to the "throw stuff over the wall" approach to open source. That would be a tragedy. Don't destroy the things about OpenStack's community that make it awesome.
>> It's definitely a trade-off between usability and community inclusion...
>> Trust me, I understand the value of cross-pollination, which is why I
>> wouldn't support a pure per-project split (as suggested elsewhere in
>> this thread). I'm just trying to find the right balance.
>>>> Because they ARE two different groups.
>>> That thinking is backwards. From a community perspective we are not two different groups. Making us into two groups is a huge mistake.
>> I was talking about groups of projects. We have an incubation process to
>> decide when new projects are allowed to start tapping into OpenStack
>> common resources, like use an openstack/* repo, get into the integrated
>> gate, or tap into QA or release management dudes for guidance. I see
>> openstack-dev ML space as one of those common resources. Letting anyone
>> use it to talk about their new stackforge project has some cost, even if
>> it's an externality to you.
>> This is not about excluding anyone, it's about prioritizing our
>> resources. If we followed your line of thought, we should just abandon
>> the project incubation process because it's a way to prevent promising
>> projects from accessing resources they need in order to develop their
>> full potential.
>> Anyway, I don't expect to convince you, since you're clearly the one
>> benefiting the most from the current setup. I'm on the other end of the
>> spectrum, trying my best to keep my sanity with the ever-growing number
>> of things I need to keep an eye on :) And maybe the benefits of
>> unlimited cross-pollination are worth more than the drawback of forcing
>> everyone to process enormous email piles every day. (Filtering is an
>> option I have with well-behaved projects like Solum, I just fear it
>> would not work so well for less "filterable" threads.)
> Can I suggest that you don't try purely mechanical filtering into
> folders? Instead, for a while, try using a threaded client, and
> configure it to show threads unexpanded by default. Then, when you're
> going to read openstack-dev, you can scan the subject lines with your
> eyes, which are AMAZINGLY good at pattern recognition and
> contextualization. It's pretty easy to skip over the non-OpenStack threads.
> BTW - in the 55 most recently active threads in openstack-dev, 8 of them
> are for topics that are only of interest to 'official' OpenStack
> projects. All 8 of them are properly prefixed and easy to ignore. There
> are a few, like:
> [openstack-dev] [Trove][Savanna][Murano] Unified Agent proposal
> discussion at Summit
> that involve integrated, incubated, and stackforge projects. But those
> are still related to integrated or incubated, so I did not include them
> in the 8.
> For the record, I'm pasting the topics and message counts here:
> [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list (48 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [Neutron] New plug-ins requirements (7 messages)
> [openstack-dev] Is Havana keystone rpm actually splitting identity and
> assignment? (4 messages)
> [openstack-dev] Using AD for keystone authentication only (9 messages)
> [openstack-dev] Openstack + OpenContrail (2 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [Glance] Summit Session Summaries (2 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [nova][api] Is this a potential issue (11 messages)
> [openstack-dev] sqlalchemy-migrate 0.8.1 (2 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [qa] Proposals for Tempest core (5 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [Heat] Continue discussing multi-region orchestration
> (13 messages)
> [openstack-dev] Congress: an open policy framework (10 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [nova][object] One question to the resource tracker
> session (11 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [Solum] SFO Design Workshop
> [openstack-dev] [Neutron] Neutron Tempest code sprint - 2nd week of
> January, Montreal, QC, Canada (27 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [Neutron] Troubleshooting OVS RPC API unit test error (3
> messages)
> [openstack-dev] sqlalchemy-migrate needs a new release (15 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [Neutron] Find the compute host on which a VM runs (2
> messages)
> [openstack-dev] [Neutron] Plugin and Driver Inclusion Requirements (4
> messages)
> [openstack-dev] Shall backward compatibility env. vars be removed from
> python-clients? (6 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [horizon] User registrations (9 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [Heat] rough draft of Heat autoscaling API (26 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [Solum] Command Line Interface for Solum (20 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [nova] future fate of nova-network? (3 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [Nova] New API requirements, review of GCE (6 messages)
> [openstack-dev] how can I know a new instance is created from the code ?
> (3 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [Nova] Icehouse Blueprints (2 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [Solum/Heat] Is Solum really necessary? (14 messages)
> [openstack-dev] Nova XML serialization bug 1223358 moving discussion
> here to get more people involved (4 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [RFC] Straw man to start the incubation / graduation
> requirements discussion (11 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [Savanna] DiskBuilder / savanna-image-elements (4 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [Keystone] Blob in keystone v3 certificate API (2 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [oslo] team meeting Friday 15 November @ 14:00 UTC (2
> messages)
> [openstack-dev] [Trove][Savanna][Murano] Unified Agent proposal
> discussion at Summit (6 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [oslo] tracking graduation status for incubated code
> [openstack-dev] [OpenStack-dev][Neutron][Tempest]Can Tempest embrace
> some complicated network scenario tests (3 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [nova][cinder][oslo][scheduler] How to leverage oslo
> schduler/filters for nova and cinder (6 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [Nova] Hypervisor CI requirement and deprecation  plan
> [openstack-dev] [Ceilometer] compute agent cannot start (7 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [Horizon] Use icon set instead of instance Action (4
> messages)
> [openstack-dev] [OpenStack][Horizon] poweroff/shutdown action in horizon
> (3 messages)
> [openstack-dev] [Murano] Implementing Elastic Applications (3 messages)
> Now - tell me in the above list where the mass of StackForge related
> email overwhelming madness is coming from. I count 4 topics and 26
> messages out of a total of 44 topics and 328 messages.
> So - before we take the extreme move of segregation, can we just try
> threaded mail readers for a while and see if it helps?
> Monty
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> OpenStack-dev at lists.openstack.org
> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev

Thanks for the tip Monty. I just started using Thunderbird last week 
and already had my tags sorting most of the dev list into folders, but 
just installed the Conversations add-on to further clean things up.



Matt Riedemann

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