[openstack-dev] [governance] Becoming a Program, before applying for incubation

Flavio Percoco flavio at redhat.com
Fri Dec 13 16:41:40 UTC 2013

On 13/12/13 10:44 -0500, Russell Bryant wrote:
>On 12/13/2013 10:37 AM, Flavio Percoco wrote:
>> On 13/12/13 15:53 +0100, Thierry Carrez wrote:
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> TL;DR: Incubation is getting harder, why not ask efforts to apply
>>> for a new program first to get the visibility they need to grow.
>>> Long version:
>>> Last cycle we introduced the concept of "Programs" to replace
>>> the concept of "Official projects" which was no longer working
>>> that well for us. This was recognizing the work of existing
>>> teams, organized around a common mission, as an integral part of
>>> "delivering OpenStack". Contributors to programs become ATCs, so
>>> they get to vote in Technical Committee (TC) elections. In
>>> return, those teams place themselves under the authority of the
>>> TC.
>>> This created an interesting corner case. Projects applying for
>>> incubation would actually request two concurrent things: be
>>> considered a new "Program", and give "incubated" status to a code
>>> repository under that program.
>>> Over the last months we significantly raised the bar for
>>> accepting new projects in incubation, learning from past
>>> integration and QA mistakes. The end result is that a number of
>>> promising projects applied for incubation but got rejected on
>>> maturity, team size, team diversity, or current integration level
>>> grounds.
>>> At that point I called for some specific label, like "Emerging
>>> Technology" that the TC could grant to promising projects that
>>> just need more visibility, more collaboration, more
>>> crystallization before they can make good candidates to be made
>>> part of our integrated releases.
>>> However, at the last TC meeting it became apparent we could
>>> leverage "Programs" to achieve the same result. Promising efforts
>>> would first get their mission, scope and existing results blessed
>>> and recognized as something we'd really like to see in OpenStack
>>> one day. Then when they are ready, they could have one of their
>>> deliveries apply for incubation if that makes sense.
>>> The consequences would be that the effort would place itself
>>> under the authority of the TC. Their contributors would be ATCs
>>> and would vote in TC elections, even if their deliveries never
>>> make it to incubation. They would get (some) space at Design
>>> Summits. So it's not "free", we still need to be pretty
>>> conservative about accepting them, but it's probably manageable.
>>> I'm still weighing the consequences, but I think it's globally
>>> nicer than introducing another status. As long as the TC feels
>>> free to revoke Programs that do not deliver the expected results
>>> (or that no longer make sense in the new world order) I think
>>> this approach would be fine.
>>> Comments, thoughts ?
>> My first thought while reading this email was:
>> What happens if that "Emerging Technology" doesn't move forward?
>Thierry addressed that at the very end of his message:
>  As long as the TC feels free to revoke  Programs that do not deliver
>  the expected results (or that no longer make sense in the new world
>  order) I think this approach would be fine.

Yup, I just meant to say this was my first concern and that it needs
more clarification than just 'being able to revoke it'.

>> Will a Program with actual projects exist? (I personally think
>> this will create some confusion).
>> I guess the same thing would happen with incubated projects that
>> never graduate to integrated. However, the probability this would
>> happen are way lower. You also make a good point w.r.t ATCs and the
>> rights to vote.
>> -1 from me. I'd be even in favor to not calling any Program
>> official until there's an integrated *team* - not project - working
>> on it. Notice that I'm using the term 'team' and not projects.
>> Programs like 'Documentation' have an integrated team working on it
>> and are part of every release cycle, the same thing applies for the
>> "Release Cycle Management" program, etc.
>We wouldn't create a program without an existing team doing some work
>already.  We even have rules around now programs along side the rules
>for incubating/graduating projects:

That is exactly why I'm bringing this up. Programs play an important
role in OpenStack. More important than just saying: 'Hey, someone is
working on this area', which is why I think they shouldn't be
considered official unless there's an 'integrated' team working on them.

In other words, if a project applying for incubation doesn't fit into
one of the existing programs, we have to request it to create a
program and make it part of the incubation application, which is what
we do today.

Hopefully, I'm not missing the real benefits of this proposal. If I
am, then please, let me know. :)


Flavio Percoco
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