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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Lauren – Thanks for your thoughts. It seems like the challenge in using DefCore to support Brand Licensing is that it will always be lagging and backwards looking.
The newest features, will not be included in DefCore because they will have no uptake when released. This seems like an issue to being able to market/promote the innovation happening in the community.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">A couple of specifc questions on the intersection of Branding and DefCore:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> How do you plan to communicate to the end-users/market the elements of OpenStack that are stable & interoperable and those which are not? Educating
users can be expense and risky.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">What are the definitions around Stability and Interoperability that will be used to support the Brand.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Carol<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Lauren Sell [mailto:lauren@openstack.org]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 02, 2015 2:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Barrett, Carol L<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Rob Hirschfeld; Rob Hirschfeld; Shamail; defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OpenStack-DefCore] Trying to explain Guidelines... here's what I'm thinking [feedback welcome]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Carol, Rob,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for raising the branding question, because it’s absolutely important that we consider the angles and are on the same page. Ultimately, what DefCore is defining and we are implementing with the OpenStack Powered commercial products
should mean interoperability and stability.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Taking a step back, one thing that’s difficult to wrap our heads around is the difference between the upstream community release and downstream implementation in distros, cloud services, etc. The community approach is evolving from both
sides with: <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">1) Upstream community project structure reform (non-commercial): The Technical Committee is essentially breaking up what has been known as the integrated release and creating a broader definition of what is labeled as upstream OpenStack
code, while also applying more sophisticated and descriptive tags to each project (beyond simply in or out of the integrated release).<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2) Downstream DefCore implementation (commercial): The DefCore Committee is creating policy to define the common denominator across OpenStack products, in order to enable interoperability and predictability for users in the market. DefCore
policy is comprised of a minimum set of code and capabilities with must-pass API tests (in practice, products will contain more features than the DefCore set), and the staff is working to implement that policy through testing and licensing programs for commercial
products. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Upstream is of course where the innovation is happening. The technical committee wants to support and recognize that innovation while also more clearly communicating the attributes of each project (such as how/when it’s released, docs &
security support, maturity, etc.). DefCore is trying to define a more conservative, stable set of functionality guaranteed to be present in downstream products. That functionality grows steadily over time, but will always be a subset of the features available
upstream. These are features and components important to interoperability and backwards compatibility across different OpenStack Powered products and services. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Initially, the DefCore committee was defining a set of API capabilities and designated sections tied to each release version (right now we’re still on Havana advisory with Icehouse in development); however, at the in-person meeting two
weeks ago, there was a discussion about decoupling the release and DefCore policy specifications, since they are trailing the releases anyway. In practice, that would mean a product would need to test against one of the two most recent API specs and also be
running the associated designated code from one of the two most recent versions of the software. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I personally think this approach could give the DefCore committee more flexibility in terms of cadence to build specification over the long term. It could also be beneficial for end users (especially apps on top of OpenStack) who are accustomed
to an API spec without having to know the release version code names. There are still some decisions to be made like how we reconcile designated sections with each version of the API compatibility tests.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I think both the upstream and downstream changes present a large opportunity from a branding and marketing perspective. Downstream we can communicate a smaller, stable set of core set of services that users can expect in the market anytime
they see the OpenStack brand. Upstream we are able to communicate and recognize innovation driven by the community, which gives insight into where the technology is heading, and may be a fit for some users today. It also gives us a better story for end users
and applications that want to be compatible with OpenStack services. Things are still evolving right now, but we are planning to promote the OpenStack Powered brand heavily at and around the Vancouver Summit, so the market has a clear understanding of the
meaning. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I’m not sure if this answers your questions, but am happy to continue the discussion.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Lauren<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Feb 27, 2015, at 11:38 AM, Barrett, Carol L <<a href="mailto:carol.l.barrett@intel.com">carol.l.barrett@intel.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks Rob – so when capabilities become accepted in the market Defcore ensures support for them moving forward, until it’s no longer
appropriate.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I’ll take up my branding concerns with the marketing side of the house.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Carol</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Rob
Hirschfeld [<a href="mailto:rob@zehicle.com"><span style="color:purple">mailto:rob@zehicle.com</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, February 27, 2015 8:36 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Barrett, Carol L; Rob Hirschfeld; Shamail<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org"><span style="color:purple">defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org</span></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [OpenStack-DefCore] Trying to explain Guidelines... here's what I'm thinking [feedback welcome]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white">Carol,<br>
<br>
DefCore can't. IMHO, it one of Vendors' roles to select, validate and support new capabilities. DefCore comes along after those capabilities are broadly adopted. It would be an anti-pattern if we selected capabilities that were only in one or two products/distros.<br>
<br>
The reason to move away from releases was to decouple this exact discussion. DefCore is not about features in releases but long term capabilities of the platform.<br>
<br>
Rob<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">On 02/27/2015 10:00 AM, Barrett, Carol L wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Rob – With my Branding hat on, it’s less about API uptake and more about the connotation of the Brand on a release. If the OpenStack
Brand on a distro means a promise of quality, interoperability and backward compatibility how can we deliver on that for new capabilities without having evaluated them and ensure there’s appropriate testing?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Carol</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Rob
Hirschfeld [<a href="mailto:rob@zehicle.com"><span style="color:purple">mailto:rob@zehicle.com</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, February 26, 2015 4:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Barrett, Carol L; Rob Hirschfeld; Shamail<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org"><span style="color:purple">defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org</span></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [OpenStack-DefCore] Trying to explain Guidelines... here's what I'm thinking [feedback welcome]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white">Carol,<br>
<br>
Let me turn that around. If a project released new capabilities out of cycle, how quickly would you expect them to surface into the DefCore guidelines?<br>
<br>
By design, we select for widely-used APIs. So, how fast should we expect a new feature to get wide adoption.<br>
<br>
Rob<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">On 02/26/2015 03:48 PM, Barrett, Carol L wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I expect that the unpredictability of project releases will create challenges in many ways. Branding is one of them – if a project
releases new capabilities out of cycle to the core-projects release of the Defcore definition update, those new features will not be covered by the Brand (which means they haven’t been validated to a certain level nor is there any backward API compatibility
promise). How will an end-user know that? If the Brand doesn’t simplify the purchasing process for the end-user, then we’re not on the right track..imho.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Rob
Hirschfeld [<a href="mailto:rob@rackn.com"><span style="color:purple">mailto:rob@rackn.com</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, February 26, 2015 1:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Shamail<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Barrett, Carol L;<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org"><span style="color:purple">defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org</span></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [OpenStack-DefCore] Trying to explain Guidelines... here's what I'm thinking [feedback welcome]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">Good questions. We're including which releases are covered in each guideline so, for example, you can track DefCore 2015.07 to the I,J & K releases. You can't use that guideline against H or L <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Shamail <<a href="mailto:itzshamail@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">itzshamail@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">Hi Carol,<br>
<br>
I agree with the concern but I think (I didn't attend the F2F) some of this may be driven by the fact that we don't necessarily have a concrete definition of what a release may look like in the future.<br>
<br>
If the releases (due to project structure reform) end up having a cadence with a usual group of components then I could see aligning with releases but I think some of that is TBD at this point, therefore this seems like a safe bet.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Shamail<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> On Feb 26, 2015, at 3:52 PM, Barrett, Carol L <<a href="mailto:carol.l.barrett@intel.com"><span style="color:purple">carol.l.barrett@intel.com</span></a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> I am concerned about achieving the Brand goal, using a month/year approach rather than a release approach. Is the expectation that a vendor will pull the upstream for the month/year Defcore test and ship a product? If a vendor release cycle is offset by
2 months, what would use to validate their Brand compliance? My thought is by that time new things will be included in a variety of projects that will be included in the Vendor release but not comprehended in the 2 month old Defcore definition.<br>
><br>
> Carol<br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: Rob Hirschfeld [mailto:<a href="mailto:rob@zehicle.com"><span style="color:purple">rob@zehicle.com</span></a>]<br>
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 11:37 AM<br>
> To:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org"><span style="color:purple">defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org</span></a><br>
> Subject: Re: [OpenStack-DefCore] Trying to explain Guidelines... here's what I'm thinking [feedback welcome]<br>
><br>
> Chris Lee pinged me about missing a note Component & Platform levels.<br>
> We need to include that in the Guidelines.<br>
><br>
> Good catch Chris!<br>
><br>
>> On 02/26/2015 12:46 PM, Rob Hirschfeld wrote:<br>
>> DefCore... does this explain Guidelines?<br>
>><br>
>> Last week, the OpenStack DefCore committee rolled up our collective<br>
>> sleeves and got to work in a serious way. We had a in-person meeting<br>
>> with great turn out with 5 board members, Foundation executives/staff<br>
>> and good community engagement.<br>
>><br>
>> TL;DR > We think DefCore should dated milestone guidelines instead<br>
>> tightly coupled to release events (see graphic<br>
>><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://robhirschfeld.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/defcore-timeline1.png" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">https://robhirschfeld.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/defcore-timeline1.png</span></a>).<br>
>><br>
>> DefCore has a single goal expressed from two sides: 1) defining the<br>
>> "what is OpenStack" brand for Vendors and 2) driving interoperability<br>
>> between OpenStack installations. From that perspective, it is not<br>
>> about releases, but about testable stable capabilities. Over time,<br>
>> these changes should be incremental and, most importantly, trail<br>
>> behind new features that are added.<br>
>><br>
>> For those reasons, it was becoming confusing for DefCore to focus on<br>
>> an "Icehouse" definition when most of the capabilities listed are<br>
>> "Havana" ones. We also created significant time pressure to get the<br>
>> "Kilo DefCore" out quickly after the release even though there were no<br>
>> "Kilo" specific additions covered.<br>
>><br>
>> In the face-to-face, we settled on a more incremental approach.<br>
>> DefCore would regularly post a set of guidelines for approval by the<br>
>> Board. These Guidelines would include the required, deprecated<br>
>> (leaving) and advisory (coming) capabilities required for Vendors to<br>
>> use the mark (see footnote*). They would also include the relevant<br>
>> designated sections. These Guidelines would use the open draft and<br>
>> discussion process that we are in the process of outlining for<br>
>> approval in Vancouver.<br>
>><br>
>> Since DefCore Guidelines are simple time based lists of capabilities,<br>
>> the vendors and community can simply reference an approved Guideline<br>
>> using the date of approval (for example DefCore 2015.03) and know<br>
>> exactly what was included. While each Guideline stands alone, it is<br>
>> easy to compare them for incremental changes.<br>
>><br>
>> We've been getting positive feedback about this change; however, we<br>
>> are still discussing it appreciate your input and questions. It is<br>
>> very important for us to make DefCore simple and easy. For that, your<br>
>> confused looks and WTF? comments are very helpful.<br>
>><br>
>> * footnote: the Foundation manages that process the Vendors. DefCore<br>
>> Guidelines are just one part of the brand process.<br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
><br>
> Rob<br>
> ____________________________<br>
> Rob Hirschfeld,<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="tel:512-773-7522"><span style="color:purple">512-773-7522</span></a><br>
><br>
> I am in CENTRAL (-6) time<br>
><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://robhirschfeld.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">http://robhirschfeld.com</span></a><br>
> twitter: @zehicle, github: cloudedge & ravolt<br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Rob<br>
____________________________<br>
Rob Hirschfeld, 512-773-7522<br>
RackN CEO/Founder (<a href="mailto:rob@rackn.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">rob@rackn.com</span></a>)<br>
<br>
I am in CENTRAL (-6) time<br>
<a href="http://robhirschfeld.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">http://robhirschfeld.com</span></a><br>
twitter: @zehicle, github: cloudedge & ravolt</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre style="background:white">I am in CENTRAL (-6) time<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><a href="http://robhirschfeld.com/"><span style="color:purple">http://robhirschfeld.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre style="background:white">Rob Hirschfeld, 512-773-7522<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre style="background:white">I am in CENTRAL (-6) time<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><a href="http://robhirschfeld.com/"><span style="color:purple">http://robhirschfeld.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">twitter: @zehicle, github: cloudedge & ravolt <o:p></o:p></pre>
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