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    Shamail,<br>
    <br>
    I think that needs to be a subject of discussion once we start
    getting some data.<br>
    <br>
    My gut is that we'd want to see at least 70% penetration of a API
    set.  That means that in 70% of the reports, we see 100% passing of
    the tests in the capability.  Said another way, 7 out of 10
    OpenStack implementations (reporting results) would have that
    capability in a fully functioning way.<br>
    <br>
    I don't know if that's the right cut off - the only way to know is
    to compare it against other capabilities.  I am very confident that
    we'll see a clear in/out range once we start collecting data.  I
    just don't know the actual %.<br>
    <br>
    I hope that helps.<br>
    <br>
    Rob<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02/27/2015 12:43 PM, Shamail wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:2CF2508E-FE0A-4E8A-9205-58DEF0F08621@gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      <div>How do we define "broad adoption"?  Should we state some
        threshold or criteria or will it be subjective for now?</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Thanks,</div>
      <div>Shamail <br>
        <br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
        On Feb 27, 2015, at 12:03 PM, Rob Hirschfeld <<a
          moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:rob@zehicle.com">rob@zehicle.com</a>>
        wrote:<br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div>
          <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8"
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          YES!  very very well said.<br>
          <br>
          <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02/27/2015 10:38 AM, Barrett,
            Carol L wrote:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote
cite="mid:2D352D0CD819F64F9715B1B89695400D5C6B5DCB@ORSMSX113.amr.corp.intel.com"
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              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks

                  Rob – so when capabilities become accepted in the
                  market Defcore ensures support for them moving
                  forward, until it’s no longer appropriate. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I’ll

                  take up my branding concerns with the marketing side
                  of the house.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Carol<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  name="_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
              <div>
                <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
                  1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
                      Rob Hirschfeld [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                        href="mailto:rob@zehicle.com">mailto:rob@zehicle.com</a>]
                      <br>
                      <b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 27, 2015 8:36 AM<br>
                      <b>To:</b> Barrett, Carol L; Rob Hirschfeld;
                      Shamail<br>
                      <b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                        href="mailto:defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org">defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
                      <b>Subject:</b> Re: [OpenStack-DefCore] Trying to
                      explain Guidelines... here's what I'm thinking
                      [feedback welcome]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </div>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Carol,<br>
                <br>
                DefCore can't.  IMHO, it one of Vendors' roles to
                select, validate and support new capabilities.  DefCore
                comes along after those capabilities are broadly
                adopted.  It would be an anti-pattern if we selected
                capabilities that were only in one or two
                products/distros.<br>
                <br>
                The reason to move away from releases was to decouple
                this exact discussion.  DefCore is not about features in
                releases but long term capabilities of the platform.<br>
                <br>
                Rob<o:p></o:p></p>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">On 02/27/2015 10:00 AM, Barrett,
                  Carol L wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Rob

                    – With my Branding hat on, it’s less about API
                    uptake and more about the connotation of the Brand
                    on a release. If the OpenStack Brand on a distro
                    means a promise of quality, interoperability and
                    backward compatibility how can we deliver on that
                    for new capabilities without having evaluated them
                    and ensure there’s appropriate testing?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Carol</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <div>
                  <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
                    1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
                        Rob Hirschfeld [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:rob@zehicle.com">mailto:rob@zehicle.com</a>]
                        <br>
                        <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 26, 2015 4:41 PM<br>
                        <b>To:</b> Barrett, Carol L; Rob Hirschfeld;
                        Shamail<br>
                        <b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org">defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
                        <b>Subject:</b> Re: [OpenStack-DefCore] Trying
                        to explain Guidelines... here's what I'm
                        thinking [feedback welcome]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Carol,<br>
                  <br>
                  Let me turn that around.  If a project released new
                  capabilities out of cycle, how quickly would you
                  expect them to surface into the DefCore guidelines?<br>
                  <br>
                  By design, we select for widely-used APIs.  So, how
                  fast should we expect a new feature to get wide
                  adoption.<br>
                  <br>
                  Rob<o:p></o:p></p>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">On 02/26/2015 03:48 PM, Barrett,
                    Carol L wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
                      expect that the unpredictability of project
                      releases will create challenges in many ways.
                      Branding is one of them – if a project releases
                      new capabilities out of cycle to the core-projects
                      release of the Defcore definition update, those
                      new features will not be covered by the Brand
                      (which means they haven’t been validated to a
                      certain level nor is there any backward API
                      compatibility promise). How will an end-user know
                      that?  If the Brand doesn’t simplify the
                      purchasing process for the end-user, then we’re
                      not on the right track..imho.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
                      Rob Hirschfeld [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:rob@rackn.com">mailto:rob@rackn.com</a>]
                      <br>
                      <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 26, 2015 1:42 PM<br>
                      <b>To:</b> Shamail<br>
                      <b>Cc:</b> Barrett, Carol L; <a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org">
                        defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
                      <b>Subject:</b> Re: [OpenStack-DefCore] Trying to
                      explain Guidelines... here's what I'm thinking
                      [feedback welcome]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">Good questions.  We're
                      including which releases are covered in each
                      guideline so, for example, you can track DefCore
                      2015.07 to the I,J & K releases.  You can't
                      use that guideline against H or L <o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 3:38
                        PM, Shamail <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:itzshamail@gmail.com"
                          target="_blank">itzshamail@gmail.com</a>>
                        wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">Hi Carol,<br>
                        <br>
                        I agree with the concern but I think (I didn't
                        attend the F2F) some of this may be driven by
                        the fact that we don't necessarily have a
                        concrete definition of what a release may look
                        like in the future.<br>
                        <br>
                        If the releases (due to project structure
                        reform) end up having a cadence with a usual
                        group of components then I could see aligning
                        with releases but I think some of that is TBD at
                        this point, therefore this seems like a safe
                        bet.<br>
                        <br>
                        Thanks,<br>
                        Shamail<br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        > On Feb 26, 2015, at 3:52 PM, Barrett, Carol
                        L <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:carol.l.barrett@intel.com">carol.l.barrett@intel.com</a>>

                        wrote:<br>
                        ><br>
                        > I am concerned about achieving the Brand
                        goal,  using a month/year approach rather than a
                        release approach. Is the expectation that a
                        vendor will pull the upstream  for the
                        month/year Defcore test and ship a product?  If
                        a vendor release cycle is offset by 2 months,
                        what would use to validate their Brand
                        compliance? My thought is by that time new
                        things will be included in a variety of projects
                        that will be included in the Vendor release but
                        not comprehended in the 2 month old Defcore
                        definition.<br>
                        ><br>
                        > Carol<br>
                        ><br>
                        > -----Original Message-----<br>
                        > From: Rob Hirschfeld [mailto:<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:rob@zehicle.com">rob@zehicle.com</a>]<br>
                        > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 11:37 AM<br>
                        > To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org">defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
                        > Subject: Re: [OpenStack-DefCore] Trying to
                        explain Guidelines... here's what I'm thinking
                        [feedback welcome]<br>
                        ><br>
                        > Chris Lee pinged me about missing a note
                        Component & Platform levels.<br>
                        > We need to include that in the Guidelines.<br>
                        ><br>
                        > Good catch Chris!<br>
                        ><br>
                        >> On 02/26/2015 12:46 PM, Rob Hirschfeld
                        wrote:<br>
                        >> DefCore... does this explain
                        Guidelines?<br>
                        >><br>
                        >> Last week, the OpenStack DefCore
                        committee rolled up our collective<br>
                        >> sleeves and got to work in a serious
                        way.  We had a in-person meeting<br>
                        >> with great turn out with 5 board
                        members, Foundation executives/staff<br>
                        >> and good community engagement.<br>
                        >><br>
                        >> TL;DR > We think DefCore should
                        dated milestone guidelines instead<br>
                        >> tightly coupled to release events (see
                        graphic<br>
                        >> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://robhirschfeld.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/defcore-timeline1.png"
                          target="_blank">
https://robhirschfeld.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/defcore-timeline1.png</a>).<br>
                        >><br>
                        >> DefCore has a single goal expressed
                        from two sides: 1) defining the<br>
                        >> "what is OpenStack" brand for Vendors
                        and 2) driving interoperability<br>
                        >> between OpenStack installations.  From
                        that perspective, it is not<br>
                        >> about releases, but about testable
                        stable capabilities.  Over time,<br>
                        >> these changes should be incremental
                        and, most importantly, trail<br>
                        >> behind new features that are added.<br>
                        >><br>
                        >> For those reasons, it was becoming
                        confusing for DefCore to focus on<br>
                        >> an "Icehouse" definition when most of
                        the capabilities listed are<br>
                        >> "Havana" ones.  We also created
                        significant time pressure to get the<br>
                        >> "Kilo DefCore" out quickly after the
                        release even though there were no<br>
                        >> "Kilo" specific additions covered.<br>
                        >><br>
                        >> In the face-to-face, we settled on a
                        more incremental approach.<br>
                        >> DefCore would regularly post a set of
                        guidelines for approval by the<br>
                        >> Board.  These Guidelines would include
                        the required, deprecated<br>
                        >> (leaving) and advisory (coming)
                        capabilities required for Vendors to<br>
                        >> use the mark (see footnote*).  They
                        would also include the relevant<br>
                        >> designated sections.  These Guidelines
                        would use the open draft and<br>
                        >> discussion process that we are in the
                        process of outlining for<br>
                        >> approval in Vancouver.<br>
                        >><br>
                        >> Since DefCore Guidelines are simple
                        time based lists of capabilities,<br>
                        >> the vendors and community can simply
                        reference an approved Guideline<br>
                        >> using the date of approval (for example
                        DefCore 2015.03) and know<br>
                        >> exactly what was included.  While each
                        Guideline stands alone, it is<br>
                        >> easy to compare them for incremental
                        changes.<br>
                        >><br>
                        >> We've been getting positive feedback
                        about this change; however, we<br>
                        >> are still discussing it appreciate your
                        input and questions. It is<br>
                        >> very important for us to make DefCore
                        simple and easy.  For that, your<br>
                        >> confused looks and WTF? comments are
                        very helpful.<br>
                        >><br>
                        >> * footnote: the Foundation manages that
                        process the Vendors. DefCore<br>
                        >> Guidelines are just one part of the
                        brand process.<br>
                        ><br>
                        > --<br>
                        ><br>
                        ><br>
                        > Rob<br>
                        > ____________________________<br>
                        > Rob Hirschfeld, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="tel:512-773-7522">512-773-7522</a><br>
                        ><br>
                        > I am in CENTRAL (-6) time<br>
                        > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://robhirschfeld.com"
                          target="_blank">http://robhirschfeld.com</a><br>
                        > twitter: @zehicle, github: cloudedge &
                        ravolt<br>
                        ><br>
                        ><br>
                        >
                        _______________________________________________<br>
                        > Defcore-committee mailing list<br>
                        > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:Defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org">Defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
                        > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/defcore-committee"
                          target="_blank">
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/defcore-committee</a><br>
                        ><br>
                        >
                        _______________________________________________<br>
                        > Defcore-committee mailing list<br>
                        > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:Defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org">Defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
                        > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/defcore-committee"
                          target="_blank">
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/defcore-committee</a><br>
                        <br>
                        _______________________________________________<br>
                        Defcore-committee mailing list<br>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:Defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org">Defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/defcore-committee"
                          target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/defcore-committee</a><o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                      <br clear="all">
                      <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Rob<br>
                            ____________________________<br>
                            Rob Hirschfeld, 512-773-7522<br>
                            RackN CEO/Founder (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:rob@rackn.com"
                              target="_blank">rob@rackn.com</a>)<br>
                            <br>
                            I am in CENTRAL (-6) time<br>
                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="http://robhirschfeld.com"
                              target="_blank">http://robhirschfeld.com</a><br>
                            twitter: @zehicle, github: cloudedge &
                            ravolt</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
                  <pre>Defcore-committee mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
                  <pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org">Defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                  <pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/defcore-committee">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/defcore-committee</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                </blockquote>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <o:p></o:p></p>
                <pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre>  <o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre>Rob<o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre>____________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre>Rob Hirschfeld, 512-773-7522<o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre>I am in CENTRAL (-6) time<o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://robhirschfeld.com">http://robhirschfeld.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre>twitter: @zehicle, github: cloudedge & ravolt <o:p></o:p></pre>
              </blockquote>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                <br>
                <o:p></o:p></p>
              <pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>  <o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
              <pre>Rob<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>____________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>Rob Hirschfeld, 512-773-7522<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
              <pre>I am in CENTRAL (-6) time<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://robhirschfeld.com">http://robhirschfeld.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>twitter: @zehicle, github: cloudedge & ravolt <o:p></o:p></pre>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <br>
          <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
  

Rob
____________________________
Rob Hirschfeld, 512-773-7522

I am in CENTRAL (-6) time
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://robhirschfeld.com">http://robhirschfeld.com</a>
twitter: @zehicle, github: cloudedge & ravolt </pre>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
  

Rob
____________________________
Rob Hirschfeld, 512-773-7522
RackN CEO, Founder

I am in CENTRAL (-6) time
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://robhirschfeld.com">http://robhirschfeld.com</a>
twitter: @zehicle, github: cloudedge & ravolt </pre>
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